Barrios Oral History Project

Dahlia Moraga Bennett was born in Tempe in 1919, and has lived here all off her life. She grew up in Barrio al Centro, where she lived with her grandmother, Ramona Moraga. After World War II, she married Marvel Bennett, an army veteran from Nogales who worked for the City of Tempe.

Dahlia and Marvel Bennett were actively involved in the planning of the Barrios exhibit at the Tempe Historical Museum. In this interview Mrs. Bennett talks about the two central barrios, Barrio al Centro and Mickey Mouse, and prominent Hispanic families in Tempe. Her husband added comments on the displacement of families in Barrio al Centro by the expansion of Arizona State College in the 1950s.

SOLLIDAY: Today I'm interviewing Dahlia Moraga Bennett. Today is March 25, 1992, and this is Scott Solliday. And, uh, let's see. I understand you were born in Tempe .

BENNETT: I was. August 9, 1919.

SOLLIDAY: And, well, could you tell us a little bit about what were your earliest memories of Tempe?

BENNETT: Earliest memories. We used to live next door to the first Mormon Church in Tempe on Sixth Street. And my grandfather, he was a blacksmith with Mr. Hackberry, Samuel Brown, and Mr. R. E. Steadham on East Fifth Street. And, my earliest memories are of that house where the Mormon church now stands. I used to play with the Burgos' kids. They were . . . they were across the street neighbors. And right on the corner of Sixth and College used to live the Sigalas. They were a very prominent family here in Tempe. And, uh, then my grandmother left my grandfather, so we moved further down towards the canal, where the National Guard Armory now is. And. . . .

SOLLIDAY: That's over on College . . . or on Sixth Street?

BENNETT: College and Sixth. Uh-huh. And, um, I lived with my grandmother all my life . . . 'till I got married. [laugh]

SOLLIDAY: And what was her name?

BENNETT: Ramona Aroz Moraga.

SOLLIDAY: And then Alejandro was. . . .

BENNETT: Alejandro was my grandfather. Um-hum.

SOLLIDAY: OK. Um . . . would the, uh . . . how about some of the activities around at that time, like the, well, let's see . . . what . . . what school did you go to?

BENNETT: Eighth Street School. Right there on the corner of Eighth and Mill. There used to be a two-story school there.

SOLLIDAY: And was that, at that time, only Mexican American children went to Eighth Street School? . . .

BENNETT: Yeah, yeah.

SOLLIDAY: . . . and Anglo children went to the Tenth Street School?

BENNETT: Went to the Tenth Street School or . . .

I remember some Mexican girls going to training school, the Payne Training School. Um-hum.

SOLLIDAY: And, how about some of the social events?

BENNETT: I don't know. I didn't have no social life at that time. [laugh]

SOLLIDAY: Well, did people get together for . . . baptisms. BENNETT: Baptisms, yeah, and when people died we all went to the wake. And there was a family here of three women -- Belen, Isabel, and Carmen. They used to sing at all the wakes. Three sisters . . . their last name was Estrella. Uh-huh.

SOLLIDAY: Now do you know if that's . . .

BENNETT: Not related to the Chandler Estrellas, but they lived here for a long, long time. In fact, at last year's reunion . . . this . . . last year's reunion in Mesa . . . involved the people from the town that gather in Mesa every year. There was two boys that I knew who were Estrella, who their mother were Estrella. Cornelio and Charlie ____________.

SOLLIDAY: Uh-huh. And . . . well, how about, uh . . . with the church. Were there a lot of activities with the church?

BENNETT: Yeah. I used to go to baptism, not baptism . . . to doctrine classes all the time. To . . . what do you call them? [laugh]

SOLLIDAY: Oh, the Catechism?

BENNETT: Catechism, yeah. I remember one time Father Honorato, he told us to go to our houses and tell our parents that we want to go swimming at a house in Chandler, and, uh, when I brought my paper back, I had written in Spanish, "Sí, Padre" . . . "Yes, Father." And he read my paper, and then he says, "Who wrote this?" I said, "I did." And he said, "You see me after Catechism." He gave me a little image of the Virgin Mary. I still have it. Um-hum.

SOLLIDAY: Now at that time, the church. . . . Now, this was St. Mary's Church? On. . . .

BENNETT: On College and Eighth Street.

SOLLIDAY: And that was still. . . . Now that was a part of the Phoenix Parish?

BENNETT: I guess so.

SOLLIDAY: And, uh, let's see. I think, uh . . . one of the things that, uh . . . is, is kinda puzzling . . . This would be a little bit difficult, 'cause I know in the early 1920s, of course, you were very young then, but it seems that when I look at the newspaper articles from that time, that there was a lot happening. And it seemed that some of the . . . especially, that many people in the Mexican American community felt . . . there was a little bit of tension with the Anglo people of Tempe. And it seemed that there was something that had happened, and some people said, because of the schools were segregated, that, uh. . . .

BENNETT: Grammar School wasn't segregated.

SOLLIDAY: The grammar school wasn't segregated?

BENNETT: Well, Tenth Street School. That was called Grammar School then. Uh-huh. It wasn't segregated, I heard, because, uh, Babe Romo, he took me to court and they admitted his children to go to grammar school. Uh-huh.

SOLLIDAY: OK. I found one little bit about that and it's kind of unusual. The Tempe paper did not really say anything about that.

BENNETT: That was not so. Mexican people went to Grammar School.

SOLLIDAY: OK. That was a little different than what I could find in the newspaper. Um . . . There's also a couple of organizations around that time, and I was wondering if you knew anything about the Liga Protectora Latina?

BENNETT: No, I don't. I've never heard of that one. All I heard of . . . the Alianza.

SOLLIDAY: The Alianza. [Alianza Hispano-Americana]

BENNETT: My grandfather was a member of that society.

SOLLIDAY: OK. What was . . . what were they . . . what did they do?

BENNETT: I don't know! [laugh] I never inquired. [laugh]

SOLLIDAY: But your grandfather was a member of that?

BENNETT: He was a member of the Alianza, uh-huh.

SOLLIDAY: But later, people . . . it was really not around Tempe as an organization later?

BENNETT: I guess so. There was another organization of Mexican people. What was it, do you know? [She asked her husband, Marvel Bennett]

The one that flourished right after we were married. What was it? I don't remember the name of it.

MARVEL BENNETT: Men used to come around and collect money. It was an insurance. All the Americans belonged to it.

DAHLIA BENNETT: I know its president was Señor Manuel Contreras, and, uh . . .

MARVEL BENNETT: Was it W.O.W.?

DAHLIA BENNETT: I think so. I'm not sure. Workmen of the World [Woodsmen of the World]. Honestly, I don't remember. I've got a very bad memory.

SOLLIDAY: Well, let's see. I have a lot of different things here of. . . . Actually, I wonder if with Tempe, and as I look at all of these different communities, there was East Tempe, and then the Sotelo . . .

BENNETT: East Tempe, over there on Rural School? Is that what they used to call East Tempe? Or along Eighth Street.

SOLLIDAY: Along Eighth Street, and, uh . . . with East Tempe, and then there was a . . .

BENNETT: El Barrio de Abajo, they used to call this . . . uh, this vicinity across the tracks.

SOLLIDAY: Oh, just right across on . . .

BENNETT: On First Street.

SOLLIDAY: On First Street.

BENNETT: Uh-huh. They used to call El Barrio de Abajo. It means the lower neighborhood.

SOLLIDAY: And that was a large barrio there?

BENNETT: Oh, yes. Lots of Mexicans used to live there. Uh-huh.

SOLLIDAY: Now, something . . . I can find the most information about East Tempe, I think. It seems that there were a lot of business people there. . . .

BENNETT: East Tempe?

SOLLIDAY: East Tempe.

BENNETT: The only store I remember there is a grocery store that used to be on Eighth Street. I remember Joe Alvarez had it for a time, and we used to call him "Jigs." And there was Don Genaro Martinez. He also . . . he also had that store, then he had another one farther down from there. And that bar that was on Eighth Street.

SOLLIDAY: Oh, on the other side of Rural?

MARVEL BENNETT: . . . The Library . . .

DAHLIA BENNETT: The Library. Yeah. And then the first street . . . the first store there was the Oviedo's store, across the street from the creamery.

SOLLIDAY: OK. And that's . . . Oh, OK. That's all the way over on East [Eighth] Street, on the far end?

MARVEL BENNETT: I think when you're using the word "East Tempe," you're including Sixth, Seventh, Dewey, Center Street, in that definition.

[THREE VOICES AT ONCE]

MARVEL BENNETT: You're taking the Tempe and . . . other side of the mill.

DAHLIA BENNETT: There used to be a store on Dewey Street. First it was run by . . . There used to be a pool hall there run by Cruz Reyes. And there was next door to him, was later years, a store run by Don Genaro Martinez and his wife, Doña Maria.

MARVEL BENNETT: And they had a place there where they made soda pop.

DAHLIA BENNETT: Oh, yeah. There was a soda pop factory there, run by Mr. Sparks, and Rock Maldonado used to work for him. There used to be a Chinese store next to the soda plant, but that was years before that.

SOLLIDAY: And were these all in one row? On Dewey Street?

BENNETT: Uh-huh. Don Genaro's store was on the north side of the street, and the soda factory and the Chinese store were on the south side of the street. Uh-huh.

SOLLIDAY: Now, what did . . . Well, what did . . . You told me about your grandfather. What did other people do in Tempe at that time for a living?

BENNETT: I know Apolonio Palomino, he used to work for the mill, the flour mill. And, I don't know . . . Manuel E. Morales, he was a contractor. He was a pastor. And next door to him on the west side used to be, used to live, the minister of the Methodist Church across the street . . . Mexican Methodist Church. That was Señor Garcia and

Señor -- what was his name? -- Señor Olivas, and Señor Marty Olivas. His father and the son were pastors of that church, were ministers. And Señor Portillo. I don't remember them all. Señor . . . Señor Muñoz. That was the one I remember best, because once he and his wife, they taught me

some . . . something to do with the Sixteenth of September celebration . . . a speech that I made at the celebration. And he and his wife, they taught me that. Uh-huh.

SOLLIDAY: Was that, um . . . was that the kind of thing that would happen every year?

BENNETT: Uh-huh. The Sixteenth of September.

MARVEL BENNETT: And Fifth of May.

DAHLIA BENNETT: Sixteenth of September.

MARVEL BENNETT: And Fifth of May.

DAHLIA BENNETT: No, sir. I never celebrated the Fifth of May. [laugh]

SOLLIDAY: But you gave a . . .

DAHLIA BENNETT: I gave a speech at the celebration here at City Hall. Uh-huh.

SOLLIDAY: So, when was that? Do you remember when that would have been around?

BENNETT: Oh, around . . . I was about sixteen years old. Must of been about 1935 or something like that. Uh-huh.

SOLLIDAY: Now, you mentioned there was the Mexican Methodist Church, also. Where . . . . . .

BENNETT: There's a small church on East Seventh Street.

SOLLIDAY: East Seventh Street.

BENNETT: Uh-Huh.

SOLLIDAY: And, um . . . I'd seen a little about that before and it seemed a little bit unusual that, uh . . . for a Mexican American community that was mostly Catholic,

and. . . .

BENNETT: Well, there's still a few Mex- . . . Methodist families here. The oldest, I guess, is the Gamboa family. Uh-huh.

SOLLIDAY: And they had always been part of the Methodist Church?

BENNETT: Yep. The Rodriguezes, the . . . Doña Isabel Rodriguez and her family. I didn't know her husband because he died before I grew up. The Gamboas, the

Rodriguezes . . . who else? I can't remember.

SOLLIDAY: I remember that one of the earliest settlers was Juan Soza, was a member of that church.

BENNETT: Oh, Juan Soza. That's right.

SOLLIDAY: . . . Soza family. . . .

BENNETT: Do you remember that woman that spoke over there at the meeting that time a month ago last? Amanda Galaz.

SOLLIDAY: Ah, yes.

BENNETT: She was daughter to him . . . Juan Soza.

SOLLIDAY: Well, um, you know, something else I noticed, and with so much of this history, a lot of it doesn't go back real far. And I know from some of the more recent times, well, from the sixties or the fifties . . . um, something in it really surprised me. I was looking at aerial photographs of what Tempe looked like in. . . .

BENNETT: Wasn't much, was it? [laugh]

SOLLIDAY: Well, no, it was always pretty small, and the aerial photograph of the downtown area. . . . They had a whole series from different years, from 1945 and '50.

BENNETT: Oh, well, that's recently. I mean, when the town was real small.

SOLLIDAY: Well, it was . . . it was still pretty small then. But what was surprising, I think, was, there was a 19-- I think it was --55. And then, the next photograph I looked at, there was nothing there at all in East Tempe. It looked like. . . .

BENNETT: All through there?

SOLLIDAY: Yeah. From Eighth Street and East Seventh Street. It looked like. . . . Now, I guess that's. . . .

BENNETT: Oh, East Seventh Street. That's when the college bought us out, wasn't it? Yeah.

SOLLIDAY: They bought the. . . .

BENNETT: They bought the whole barrio over there and destroyed all the houses.

SOLLIDAY: They did that all at one time, then, just . . .

DAHLIA BENNETT: Yeah.

MARVEL BENNETT: No.

DAHLIA BENNETT: No?

MARVEL BENNETT: It was in process for several years. We was the last people to leave. They had to take us to court. And, uh, I can remember one year going to [unintelligible] camp, and coming back, and found her crying.

DAHLIA BENNETT: [laugh]

MARVEL BENNETT: It was the only house standing over there, and bulldozers were workin', and you had laundry out. . . .

DAHLIA BENNETT: [laugh] Yeah, and they were dirtying my laundry. [laugh]

MARVEL BENNETT: And I come home, boy, she would cry, "You guys get out of here!" The university, I would venture to say, they stole all that property. What they'd done, they hired their own appraiser, and he went out and appraised the land. And they gave you an option. You could go ahead and hire three appraisers, but, the appraisal of the university buyer was what they was gonna accept. And that's the way it was. They took us, well, I took them to court, and they told me that for a fact we was gonna lose our land, and I knew we was gonna lose our land. So they, knowing this, they took and moved us to a house that belonged to the university in front of the East Stadium. They gave us rent free and everything while they settled with us. Now there was an old man that lived in the city of Tempe that was very well versed on land, property. He was a property owner. His name was Lanier Crook. And he told me one day, he said, "Look, any time that they take and condemn your property for use as a public land, they have to take and pay you for the transportation that you had available, meaning, provided by the state or the county or somebody. They had to pay you for the distance you have to walk, to go to a school, a church, or a grocery store. They had to take and pay you for every tree that's on this property. They had to pay you for the convenience . . ." You know, he laid it out for me. And with this knowledge, that's why I fought the people.

SOLLIDAY: 'Cause they weren't going to offer anything . . .

MARVEL BENNETT: No. They weren't offerin' nothin'. Some of the people that had good pieces of property. Well, I won't say good. . . . I mean good sized pieces of property over there. The man come down there and he showed him the greenbacks and immediately they sold. And they're out of there, looking for a place to go. Now, four or five thousand dollars, back in them days, was a lot of money. It was a lot of money back in '54. Or say, '57, or '53, '54, '55, '56, '57. Now, I confronted the guys -- they was Oakley, right? He was a purchasing agent. I said, "What I want you to do, you take and give me something of equal value that's in a vicinity similar to what I have here, and we'll just trade straight across." And he brought me out here and showed me a bunch of different little houses. We'll use the word little houses, 'cause they were small houses in comparison with what I had. But I didn't have a grocery store. I didn't have a church. I didn't have a school. I didn't have a, the canal. . . . I didn't have nothin'! And he said, "Well, I guess we's jus' gonna have

to go to court." He scared everybody with the name court. And there was a judge, who . . . he was a. . . .

DAHLIA BENNETT: Judge Hardy.

MARVEL BENNNETT: Judge Hardy. He was from Nogales.

DAHLIA BENNETT: Charles Hardy.

MARVEL BENNETT: Down from Nogales. And I guess he knew my folks or somethin', and he said, "Bennett, are you related to Joe Bennett?" Yeah, yeah. "OK," he says, "What are you looking for?" And I said, "By God, I'm looking for a fair price." And the difference of the appraisers that I hired in comparison with what these people had, we had a difference of about thirty-five hundred dollars. And I guess we probably ended up splittin' that difference, and that's when we finally settled. But I'll never forget that damn university, boy, that was a flashback.

DAHLIA BENNETT: [laugh] They really scratched you, didn't they!

MARVEL BENNNETT: They didn't. Everybody else over there!

DAHLIA BENNETT: [laugh] Maria Soza, she had a fairly good home.

MARVEL BENNNETT: They use the word, "condemn." Your property is "condemned." The house that we lived in was probably one of the most modern houses in el barrio, because it was built in the forties, and a lot of them houses in there was built in the twenties and thirties. She built this house during the time I was in the service. So we had a cement block house, with steel slashed windows and doors that opened and closed, and central heating, and running water, electricity. . . . You know what I'm saying? And to have somebody use the word, "condemned?" We're going to "condemn" it? Jesus Christ! [laugh]

SOLLIDAY: You usually think of an old, run down place

that. . . .

MARVEL BENNNETT: Yep. And then, Mr. Crook told me, he said, "Look, any time they condemn a piece of land and use it for the public, it has to be occupied within ninety days. You know what I'm saying? And ours wasn't. They, they, they tore it down, but they didn't do nothin' with that land for years. I called, OK, they have to take you back to court. Condemning a piece of property you have to do something within ninety days. And he says, "Well, they tore it down, leveled the ground off . . ." And I said, "Yeah, but it's not being used for anything. If it was a parking lot or something where the public was using it, I wouldn't have a case. But it ain't being used for nothin'! I guess it wasn't long after that they made a parking lot out of it! [laugh]

SOLLIDAY: Well, I guess it's being used, then!

DAHLIA BENNETT: Part of our house . . . where the swimming pool is, isn't that where we used to live?

MARVEL BENNETT: Well, more . . . They recently put the high rise parking place in there. But where the bank is, today, that used to be the old pump house.

SOLLIDAY: Hold the water. . . .

MARVEL BENNETT: Yeah. That was the only system of water and they had these pumps that was in the basement, and these pumps were used in . . . in different mines to take water from one level to another. And if . . . if you took them pumps and put 'em on a surface, they wasn't able to take and lift that water to that level and push it up to the tank, so they took and submerged these pumps or moved the whole floor down about sixty feet, and you had to go down some steps to get down to those pumps.

SOLLIDAY: So they were far underground.

MARVEL BENNETT: Yeah.

DAHLIA BENNETT: Mr. Carr was the pump man for a long time.

MARVEL BENNETT: Different people ran the pumps. We lived east of there on the opposite side of the street, on the corner of what would be Center Street and Seventh Street. Yes, we lived there. That's a little piece of land that, if I'd have had my gun in them days, I could have shot that old _________________.

DAHLIA BENNETT: [laugh]

SOLLIDAY: Well, it's amazing to think of how big an area of Tempe was taken all at once there, and, uh, because a lot of . . . of course now, it's . . . I'd never thought of that before . . . I guess every time I went by it seemed that those dormitories had been there forever, but that, that's really that whole area, is where the dormitories are?

DAHLIA BENNETT: Yeah. That high rise dormitory over there.

MARVEL BENNETT: Palo Verde! Whadja think that whole pie shape from what the church is today, and you go all the way down to where the railroad tracks are, and then ya double back over toward the stadium and College Avenue, tied right back into the stadium, and all that big pie shape, that was the barrio, as they called it. But they didn't call it barrio. To me, it was just Center Street and Dewey Street.

SOLLIDAY: 'Cause I've always seen the name East Tempe for that. I don't know where that came from.

MARVEL BENNETT: I don't know. That . . . It bothers me when you say East Tempe, because. . . .

DAHLIA BENNETT: East Tempe would be over there, where the, the . . . what was their name? Oviedos. Oviedos.

SOLLIDAY: Oh, the old Eighth Street?

BENNETT: Yeah. Old Eighth Street, down by the creamery. They had a very big white house that was over there. And one time, Sophia Sigala, she asked me, she says, "Do you wanna go visit somebody with me?" And I said, "Sure." So she took me to the Oviedo house. They were very prominent people here, and, uh, during the course of the conversation she said, "Dahlia," she says, "why don't you Charleston for us?" And I says, "I don't know how to Charleston!" And she says, "Sure you do! I saw you the other day!" I wouldn't do it. [laugh]

SOLLIDAY: And they had the store right with their house.

Was the store the same?

BENNETT: No, No. The store was on the other side of the bridge that crosses into, into those dormitories that are over there on. . . .

SOLLIDAY: Oh, yeah. The bridge across the canal. . . .

BENNETT: Yeah, yeah. They had the store on that side of the bridge, and their house next door to Mr. Marlatt's garage. You know where Marlatt's is.

SOLLIDAY: Um . . .

BENNETT: That old service station on Eighth Street.

SOLLIDAY: Yeah, I remember seeing that. I don't know if any of that is still there now. It's, uh. . . .

BENNETT: The garage is still there.

SOLLIDAY: I know it's changed so much there. . . .

BENNETT: Yeah, it has.

SOLLIDAY: . . . those older houses are, are. . . .

DAHLIA BENNETT: Well, the house . . . I don't think it's standing now, is it?

MARVEL BENNETT: Which house?

DAHLIA BENNETT: Oviedos' house, where Salvador Leyvas used to live.

MARVEL BENNETT: Jean Moritz' garage is still in the building, somewhere.

SOLLIDAY: Um, let's see. I have a lot of all these names of people that I've been collecting, and I'm not sure I know a whole lot about some of these people, and. . . . Let's see if I got the right one here. Here we go. This is, this is probably too big of a list, here, but I was wondering if we go through this, if you could tell me a little bit about some of these families, if you know some of these I have here, like the Acedo. . . .

DAHLIA BENNETT: Acedo family, that was a big family. The father was a butcher for Mr. Matley, over there where the pie shape is on Eight Street and, and Canal Street. The father was the butcher there.

SOLLIDAY: Oh, that was right on the tip where the canal crossed?

BENNETT: Or, or, or it makes that triangle like that. Uh-huh. I don't know who used to live in the big house, but Mr. Trimblescarot used to live right, right across the street. Where where where where the street makes a pie shape right there. Uh-huh.

SOLLIDAY: Oh, OK. Um, let's see. How about Aguilar?

BENNETT: I don't know anything about the Aguilars. They came, they moved into the barrio over there where we used to live after we'd been there, so I don't know anything about them.

SOLLIDAY: OK. Let's see. I know a lot of these are from different . . . some of the earliest families here. How about the Arredondos?

BENNETT: Arredondos. I think, I know just very little. I know their mother. She used to live on East Eighth Street, which is now . . . what is it now?

MARVEL BENNETT: Still East Eighth Street.

SOLLIDAY: That little section is still Eighth Street.

DAHLIA BENNETT: My great grandfather's brother used to live in the white house that's still standing on Eighth Street.

MR. BENNETT: That's the one they're gonna make a Museum, or something out of. . . .

SOLLIDAY: Oh, the. . . .

BENNETT: Peña was his last name. His name was . . . Hm. My grandfather's name was . . . I can't remember nothin'. Grandfather's name was Encarnación Peña, and his brother's name was, uh, Cuco Peña . . . Refugio. And, uh, they used to take me over there all the time. My Uncle Ramon had come after me in the spring wagon and take me over there and I'd stay there all day. They always made sure I didn't go near the well. And, uh, what was that question you asked me?

SOLLIDAY: Oh, about the Arredondo. . . .

BENNETT: Arredondo family. I think they came after my Tio Cuco. He used to live in that house and he died, and the Arredondo family moved in that house. All, all I know of the Arredondo family was their mother. What was her name? Josie. Josie Arredondo. No, her name wasn't Arredondo. What was her name, her maiden name? . . . I don't remember.

SOLLIDAY: I know. I'd seen that and I can't remember right now.

END SIDE ONE

BEGIN SIDE TWO

SOLLIDAY: Um, let's see. Did you know any of the Arvizu?

BENNETT: I know most of them. That was a very big family. Oh, I didn't know their father. His name was Pascasio, Pascasio Arvizu. And their mother's name was Brigida. Their son, one of their sons, Ralph, he was my compadre, because we baptized one of his sons. And that was a very big family, too.

SOLLIDAY: And, do you know if they had been in Tempe for a long time?

BENNETT: They were here for a very long time.

SOLLIDAY: 'Cause I had, uh . . . I hadn't found any of the dates that they might have been here, but I know

somebody. . . . We have some earlier oral history of some people like this Irene Rodriquez and Mary Soza. And they had, had . . . one of those had mentioned something about that.

BENNETT: The Arvizus.

SOLLIDAY: Let's see. How about the Bustoz.

BENNETT: I don't know anything about the Bustoz. I think they lived in ranches around here. They never lived in town, I don't think. Joaquin Bustoz? Is that who you mean?

SOLLIDAY: Yes, that was one of. . . . And, uh, the Celayas?

DAHLIA BENNETT: The Celayas were a very strong family here at one time. And Mr. Celaya. . . . I don't know what he was, how he got his livelihood, but he was President of the Alianza. That was an insurance company. An insurance club. And he used to live on. . . . What's that street that goes right into Grammar School?

MARVEL BENNETT: Myrtle?

DAHLIA BENNETT: Myrtle. He used to live over there by Grammar School. I know, 'cause when we lived in his house over here on Seventh Street, right next door to the pump house, I used to go with them paying the rent every month.

MARVEL BENNETT: Twenty-five cents a month.

DAHLIA BENNETT: No, No. [laughs]

MARVEL BENNETT: You told me a story once that you paid the rent and twenty-five cents. [laughing]

DAHLIA BENNETT: My grandmother used to give me -- when we were renting from Charlie Sigala -- she used to give me twenty-five cents to pay the rent. She used to charge us two dollars a month. And she'd send him twenty-five cents, and Charlie would tell me, "Dahlia," she says, "tell your grandmother to save all the quarters 'till she has two dollars." Nope. She always gave me twenty-five cents to pay the rent. [laugh]

MARVEL BENNETT: She'll quote you two dollars a month. But if you, if you take and pay the thing in twenty-five cent brackets, you're better off, because you only give them twenty-five cents a week, see. [laughs] So, it turns out to be . . . what, a dollar a month, instead of two, see.

But every week, take them a quarter . . . and you said your grandma was dumb!

DAHLIA BENNETT: I know she wasn't dumb! [laugh] She wouldn't have lived as long as she lived if she had been!

SOLLIDAY: How about the Chavarria family?

BENNETT: They were all musicians, as I know. Don Pablito, that's what we used to call the old man. He had a orchestra and a network . . . a network. Pablo Chavarria, and Don Pablito, his father. And, uh, Victor Arroyo, and Mark Carbajal and David Carbajal. They used to play at the dances there at Curry Hall and at the Midway Ballroom.

SOLLIDAY: The Midway Ballroom?

BENNETT: On the corner of Fifth and Mill.

SOLLIDAY: Fifth and Mill, let's see. . . .

BENNETT: On . . . where the post office is now. There used to be a store there, called the Toggery . . . Was it the Toggery? I think so.

MARVEL BENNETT: As I recall, it was called the "Busy Corner."

BENNETT: Yeah. The Busy Corner. That was it. Yeah. The Busy Corner. Then the phone company -- phone house -- used to be next door. Uh-huh.

SOLLIDAY: What kind of, uh, what kind of music did they play?

BENNETT: Modern music, at that time. [laugh]

SOLLIDAY: Like swing and jazz and. . . .

BENNETT: Uh-huh. I remember once [laugh] I was small and skinny when I was little. When I was young, I mean. And one time, Henry Bojorquez, he, he asked to dance. He was a great big cowboy, the one Bob Lincoln knows. He was a great big cowboy, and he, he took me through all the dance floor! [laugh] I never touched the floor. [laugh] Then he went and got some . . . Belen Carbajal. She was a big woman. She was one of the social girls. Yeah.

SOLLIDAY: Oh, OK. I think I had wondered about that. I saw her . . . her maiden name was Soza.

BENNETT: Soza. uh-huh.

SOLLIDAY: Oh, OK.

BENNETT: She's cousin to that woman that was at the meeting two times ago. Amanda Galaz. She's cousin to her.

SOLLIDAY: OK. Those are. . . . See, some of those things like that, I, I see some of the names, and I've been trying figure out where they . . .

BENNETT: Where they belong!

SOLLIDAY: I've found a lot of 'em, but there's still a few that. . . .

BENNETT: Yeah.

SOLLIDAY: . . . that that helps to get . . . Let's see. How about the Contreras.

BENNETT: Contreras family. They were very religious family. There was Manuel and Doña Josefa. They were the parents of Mary and Terry and Gertrude. They had two boys. I don't remember the boys' names. But he had three, three nephews. They used to call them the heebee-jeebees, because they were very tall. One was Frankie, one was . . . I don't remember their names, but they were very big boys. And, uh, Sotero, the boy that goes to all the meetings? Sotero [Joe] Soto? He was . . . his mother a relation to the Contreras. Uh-huh.

SOLLIDAY: OK, I'll have to ask him more about that.

BENNETT: Yeah, yep.

SOLLIDAY: How about the Escalantes?

BENNETT: Escalantes, they. . . . I knew Ray Escalante. He, he was brother to Doña Clara Urbano, and Maria Escalante and Inez Escalante. Maria was a school teacher. She used to live right here on the corner of Maple and Tenth. That little house that's there . . . white house?

SOLLIDAY: Let's see. Maple and Tenth. Uh . . . Oh, the white with, uh . . . right close to the campus. Yeah.

BENNETT: Yeah. That's it. Maria was a teacher. I don't know where, but I know she was a teacher. And Inez used to live with her, her sister. And they had a sister, Doña Clara Urbano, and Clara used to live in the barrio here. She used to live on the corner of Sixth and Center. Uh-huh. SOLLIDAY: Um. Let's see. How about the Estradas?

BENNETT: Estrada . . . that was a big family. I don't know very much about 'em. They . . . Pedro, he used to live next door to Maria Soza on Dewey Street. Uh-huh. I think his son died here, maybe two, three years ago . . . Rafaelito Estrada. Yeah.

SOLLIDAY: Uh . . . Let's see, now. You mentioned a little bit about the, uh, the Gamboa family.

BENNETT: I don't know anything about the Gamboas. I know something about them, I'm not going to tell you! [laughs]

MARVEL BENNETT: Steven and Ben and . . . all. . . .

DAHLIA BENNETT: Steven and Ben and John and Mike and Melito.

MARVEL BENNETT: All of them were musicians.

DAHLIA BENNETT: All of them are musicians. Uh-huh. Well, Mike's dead, and so is Arlene. Tommy, I think, is dead, too. The only ones living are Ben, Steven, and John.

Uh-huh.

SOLLIDAY: Um, let's see . . . Now, I find so many Gonzalez, which I think maybe could be several different families.

BENNETT: The only Gonzalezes I know . . . I knew . . . were Guillermo Gonzalez and Chico Gonzalez. They were brothers. They were brothers to Juliana Burgos and Candelaria Watt. I don't know. But those are the only Gonzalezes that I knew. Chico and Guillermo.

SOLLIDAY: And what, what area did they live in?

BENNETT: Juliana used to live . . . Juliana Burgos was her married name, but she was a Gonzalez, too. She used to live across the street from us on Sixth Street. And later on they moved to . . . where? Oh, they moved to the corner of Sixth and Center. Uh-huh. Across the street from the Urbano house.

SOLLIDAY: OK. How about Granillo?

BENNETT: Granillos. Oh, that was a very big family. My grandmother used to tell me about them, but I really don't know anything about them. I know Doña Paz Bojorquez. She's a Granillo. She was. Telez Granillo Tobin, she's mother to Manuel and Chichi Tobin. And Doña Clara Bernal, she was a Granillo. She lived . . . she used to live in Gilbert. Who else was a Granillo? Um . . . Doña Adela Granillo. She wasn't a Granillo. Her husband must have been a Granillo, 'cause that was her married name.

SOLLIDAY: You wouldn't have any idea what there parents' names were, though?

BENNETT: Doña Adela, she was daughter to Doña Merced Celaya. She used to live across the tracks, on . . . Where did Ramon used to live? . . . Carbajal.

MARVEL BENNETT: He lived in Mickey Mouse!

DAHLIA BENNETT: Mickey Mouse, yeah. And he named Mickey Mouse. [laugh]

MARVEL BENNETT: They lived in the barrio, just below the little butte.

DAHLIA BENNETT: . . . the railroad tracks. . . .

MARVEL BENNETT: . . . just below the little butte.

SOLLIDAY: Now, that's . . . Let's see, that's the area on the other side of the canal, is Mickey Mouse Town, and. . . .

MARVEL BENNETT: The area where occupied today would be where the fraternity houses are . . . uh . . . the stadium

DAHLIA BENNETT: Where the baseball diamond is?

MARVEL BENNETT: Not the Tempe Center. Not. . . . That area where the Activity Center is was not occupied by anything back in, say, the thirties and forties. But just everything east of there was Mickey Mouse.

SOLLIDAY: Well, why'd you call that Mickey Mouse?

[laughter]

MARVEL BENNETT: Well, I was, I was workin' for the city, and I had no idea how to read a water meter. And one day I went to work and the, uh, City Manager gave me a book, and he said, "Here, why don't you go out and read these water meters?" And I asked somebody there, I said, "How do you read a water meter?" and they explained it to me. And, I was out of the service, and I was quick to catch on to things. And I asked, "Well, where do I go?" And where the city yard was located, is where the bank is today. So when you take and read from here back up toward the butte, and when you hit the canal, you take all the houses along the canal to where you get to where there's a bridge. Said you cross that bridge and take all the houses that are in the back over there. Now . . . and you go to Eighth Street and back over to here. In other words, that's one area. So it's simple to take and read a water meter if you can find it. And it's simple to find a water meter if all the houses are laid out in blocks where the streets are, because the water mains run in front of the streets, and the meter's attached to the water main. So I had no problem, 'till I got to that bridge down there. There was a great big feed mill there. A big red brick building, and there was a bridge across the canal and, to cross the railroad tracks. And then I get down to this area where the town was laid out like a big pie. Like a great big wedge. In the center of the, of the wedge, the houses were in there, not in square lots, so you can take and imagine fifteen, twenty, thirty houses occupying this, this wedge. And then, on each side of the street that went out, there was little houses scattered out there. So, I figure, well, I'm gonna go down this side, and I'm going to take and read all the meters on here. When I get down there by the river, I'll turn off and read them, and then I'll read this one. . . . They weren't laid out like that! [laughter] The water main went through the property lines, and went through the front of the house, or parked over by a window. Man, what a mess! [laughter] It took me three days to read that damn thing! And the first day I went back in to give the man the book and I told him, I said, "I can't find those dad gum meters over there." And he was Mr. Daley. He said, "Well, try again tomorrow." And the guy that showed me how to read the meters was Ramon Carbajal. He lived in that area. So I said, "Ramon," I said, in Spanish, I asked him how was the water mains laid out out there? And he told me that when they laid the water main in there, the guy that asked for it to go in there, he paid for a little pipe to go to his house. And then somebody says, "Well, I want water, too." So they tied behind this guy's meter and extended the water line in a straight line, because the shortest distance between two points is a straight line. So over there to that house. And they put a water meter in the end of it, and somebody else attached behind it, and that's the way the dad gummed thing was laid out!

SOLLIDAY: Just zig-zag across. . . .

MARVEL BENNETT: I mean to tell you, it was a mess! [laughter] So the second day I went out there and Mr. Daley says, "Are you doing any good?" And I said, "Oh, that damn Mickey Mouse over there, you can't find anything!" [laughter] I said, "Well, stay with it." Yep. Finally, they said, "Did you take care of that Mickey Mouse out there?" And I said, "Yeah, I got it down."

DAHLIA BENNETT: [laugh] And the name stuck!

MARVEL BENNETT: And this individual, Ramon Carbajal, he lived out there, and he had his family out there. And it was kind of an odd place in that, there. . . . I was kind of a comedian. So I run across a man in there, and he was kind of a nut.

DAHLIA BENNETT: Pat.

MARVEL BENNETT: And I called him "Loco Pat." That's my nickname for him. And, uh, one day I come in, and I said to Ramon, I said, "Ramon, did that mayor of Mickey Mouse over there give me a problem, is he won't let me get in the yard to read his meter." [laughter] He said, "Mayor, who's the mayor?" I said, "Loco Pat." Now he rescinded it, because Ramon is help establish this place, and he wanted to be the mayor, see? Oh, man! Where in the hell did he get off being the mayor? I said, "Hey, fella, he's the mayor." He was the only guy, this Loco Pat, that complained that I got in his yard. All the other people would be running around free, but not his way. I had to give him a title. I didn't want to call him the Governor. [laughs]

DAHLIA BENNETT: Oh, boy.

SOLLIDAY: Well, then, that wasn't . . . that area wasn't that old? Was that the oldest part of the neighborhood,

or. . . .

MARVEL BENNETT: I would say, that, through my estimate, I would say that Mickey Mouse was probably older than the houses on Sixth, Seventh, Dewey, Center

DAHLIA BENNETT: Oh, yes, they were.

MARVEL BENNETT: I would say that area was established long before the barrio became on this side of the canal or the railroad tracks. Because a lot of the houses over in that area were flat roof, there was no ceilings, and the door was even with the roof. And a lot of it was made out of salvage. But I was packing crates, uh, uh, where Gonzales lived, and even where Trini lived. They was just stuff that they'd picked up in the dump. Now the dump was there. There was a dump, where the butte is at and in toward the river, back and to the right. There was a dump there.

DAHLIA BENNETT: Right about where the baseball diamond is, now.

MARVEL BENNETT: Yeah, either there, or more toward . . . maybe the street.

DAHLIA BENNETT: Yeah.

MARVEL BENNETT: Which would be Scottsdale Road.

About . . . maybe about where the big Buick billboard is, by the, uh. . . .

DAHLIA BENNETT: By the baseball diamond. Yeah.

MARVEL BENNETT: Yeah. Right about . . . maybe right about that vicinity was a big dump. It was all car frames and cans and stuff like that.

DAHLIA BENNETT: . . . Platero, he used to run his cows down in that part of town.

MARVEL BENNETT: And if you're familiar with the . . . what this big home here on, uh. . . .

DAHLIA BENNETT: Farmers.

MARVEL BENNETT: On Farmers. Called the Goodwin home.

SOLLIDAY: Oh, yes.

MARVEL BENNETT: Are you familiar with that house? There was another house identical to that house over there.

DAHLIA BENNETT: Doña, Doña. . . .

SOLLIDAY: In Mickey Mouse town?

MARVEL BENNETT: It was on the other side of Mickey Mouse town.

DAHLIA BENNETT: It was on Eighth Street.

MARVEL BENNETT: It was not . . . there was no street there.

DAHLIA BENNETT: Yeah, but I mean, it fronted on Eighth Street.

MARVEL BENNETT: If, uh, if I was to try to place where that house were today, I would say it was . . . What do they call that corner there? Studebaker corner?

SOLLIDAY: Oh, yeah . . . The Cornerstone, or the shopping center on the corner?

MARVEL BENNETT: Yeah. Yep.

SOLLIDAY: Oh, OK. That must have been the old Winchester Miller. . . .

DAHLIA BENNETT: Winchester Miller, yeah. Doña Maria Miller, that was the woman's name. That was . . . She was related to the . . . hm.

MARVEL BENNETT: Can I go ahead and finish?

DAHLIA BENNETT: Yes, yes, go ahead. [laugh]

MARVEL BENNETT: When I remember? The house was there. It was a great big two-story building. . .

DAHLIA BENNETT: Green house.

MARVEL BENNETT: . . . identical to this one. I'd say the same contractor built that house. Winchester Miller, that I know of, lived in a little shack.

DAHLIA BENNETT: Yeah, but that was his mother's house, Maria Miller.

MARVEL BENNETT: Well maybe that was, I said, Winchester Miller, the guy I knew . . .

DAHLIA BENNETT: Yeah.

MARVEL BENNETT: . . . lived in a little shack as you cross that . . . off in the bush, going into Mickey Mouse.

DAHLIA BENNETT: Yep.

MARVEL BENNETT: Yep.

DAHLIA BENNETT: Yeah.

MARVEL BENNETT: If that was a Winchester Miller house, I don't know it.

DAHLIA BENNETT: Yeah, Winchester was the, uh, Doña Maria's husband's name. Winchester Miller. Uh-huh.

SOLLIDAY: The first . . . Well, pretty early in the . . . One of the first people in Tempe lived there. Um, now that's one of the things, I know, I don't know if

there's. . . . Are there still some of the Sotelo family?

DAHLIA BENNETT: I don't think so. I never heard of 'em.

SOLLIDAY: It seemed like. . . .

DAHLIA BENNETT: Her maiden name was Sotelo. That's what my grandmother used to tell me.

SOLLIDAY: I wonder if it was only. . . . It almost seems like the, uh, Sotelos were . . . it was all girls, and

so. . . . 'Cause I know the Granillos, the Sozas. . . .

DAHLIA BENNETT: They all stem from that family.

MARVEL BENNETT: There was a group of houses in Mickey Mouse that was fronted by an open canal, and the back yard backed up to the railroad tracks. And I'd say there was

seven . . . ten . . . houses? The . . . and. . . .

DAHLIA BENNETT: In Mickey Mouse?

MARVEL BENNETT: Obregon lived in one of them.

DAHLIA BENNETT: Oh, Obregon.

MARVEL BENNETT: He had the cows and the pigs and stuff. And, and the water meter was in the center of the cow pen, underneath an old wash tub. Sh--!

SOLLIDAY: [laugh]

DAHLIA BENNETT: His father used to have . . . he used to have . . . a row of houses between the tracks on Dewey and Canal Street. It was a two-story adobe building. Uh-huh. I know, 'cause my aunt lived there and Juliana Burgos lived there.

MARVEL BENNETT: It was . . . it was a funny place, that.

DAHLIA BENNETT: Yeah.

MARVEL BENNETT: . . . the way it was laid out.

DAHLIA BENNETT: That was the Obregon place, and Tichi Martinez, Tichi Romero, and then . . . then, a woman . . . That's where the Mariano . . .

whats-his-name? Ramirezes used to live, then the Miguel Barragan. Those four houses were on Dewey, on Canal Street. Uh-huh.

MARVEL BENNETT: . . . like that . . . if you crossed the tracks and crossed that bridge, then you were on the road if you were drivin' or walkin'. The road actually split like that. And the first house was right in the center of the pie. And it had the V-shaped property. And as you went further away on these two roads, well, naturally, the properties kept getting bigger and bigger. But they

chopped 'em up in the center to put these different houses in there. It was quite a thing! [laugh] And one guy, Loco Pat, he even had an orchard in there!

DAHLIA BENNETT: [laugh]

MARVEL BENNETT: And he got mad at somebody chopped down all the apples and peach trees.

DAHLIA BENNETT: I know he had a . . . his mother-in-law, when I was very young, she had some trees that had pomegranates about this big. But they were the sour kind. Those great big red ones?

SOLLIDAY: Oh, yeah.

DAHLIA BENNETT: Yeah. Big pomegranates. Yeah.

MARVEL BENNETT: Yeah, that was quite a place.

SOLLIDAY: Yeah, it seems that it was . . . I don't know. For some reason, I thought it was a small area, but it sounds like it's pretty large.

MARVEL BENNETT: No, it wasn't that small. There was quite a few families in there.

DAHLIA BENNETT: Don Antonio Cota, he lived in there for a long time. Don ____________ Muñoz, too.

MARVEL BENNETT: That, that Cota guy. . . .

DAHLIA BENNETT: ____________________ .

MARVEL BENNETT: When I came here, he had acquired an old military building.

DAHLIA BENNETT: Who?

MARVEL BENNETT: Uh, Cota. And, and, uh, it wasn't very big, but he had acquired this building.

DAHLIA BENNETT: Oh, you mean Pablo Cota. Yeah.

MARVEL BENNETT: But he didn't bother to take off the side across the top of the door, except ____________. [laughter] And that's the way I always used to identify it. If I had a problem with somethin', I'd say, "Oh, the commanding officer," you know. Heck, I was an ex-military, anyway.

DAHLIA BENNETT: They were related to my grandmother on her mother's side. Antonio and Pablo Cota. Yeah.

SOLLIDAY: Yeah, it was quite a place!

SOLLIDAY: Oh. Well, there's so many families here, and I know, I think with. . . . Actually, you've mentioned so many of them here. I don't want to try and go through every one of them, but, well, let's see. . . . How about the Ruiz family?

DAHLIA BENNETT: Ruiz? You mean the Contreras and the Ruizes and the. . . . I don't know very much about the Ruizes. I used to know Doña. . . . What was her name? Manuel Contreras's wife. They had six children, I guess. I knew the girl's pretty well, 'cause Mary and I, we worked at Williams Field during the war. Mary Contreras. . . . What's that big guy's name on T.V.? What was Tommy's last name, do you remember?

MARVEL BENNETT: Tommy who?

DAHLIA BENNETT: Tommy Contreras' son-in-law.

MARVEL BENNETT: Oh, I don't know.

DAHLIA BENNETT: His son used to be on T.V. I don't remember. They were related. She was related, Mrs. Contreras, to the Ruiz family. Sotelo's mother's family? Uh-huh.

SOLLIDAY: Well, the Soza family.

DAHLIA BENNETT: Oh, that's a big family. All I know is that Amanda Galaz, that woman that was at the meeting, she's one of the Soza's girls. She was daughter to Don Juan and Doña Perfecta Soza . . . Juan Soza. Yeah. And he had a brother, Antonio, and Doña Teresa Valleconde Soza,

and. . . . Who else was in that? And Doña Estella Romero, she was a Soza, too. I don't know. That's all I know about 'em.

SOLLIDAY: OK. Well, that's. . . . And, I think that I'll have to ask her a little bit, too.

DAHLIA BENNETT: Yeah, she'll talk your ear off, too. [laugh]

SOLLIDAY: She sounded like she knew a lot of the family history.

BENNETT: Yes, she does! She's the only girl I remember going off to school with. Uh-huh.

SOLLIDAY: Um, let's see. I think. . . . Well, there's one other thing I wanted to ask you about. You mentioned that you were, you were working at Williams Air Force Base.

BENNETT: Um. From forty-two to forty-five.

SOLLIDAY: And what were you . . . what kind of work were you? . . .

BENNETT: Machine shop.

SOLLIDAY: The machine shop. And that was. . . . But, but you lived here in Tempe and you went out. . . .

BENNETT: Oh, yes. I used to ride the bus. So . . . and sometimes I. . . . The first man I. . . . I rode the bus about two or three days, and a man, Don Genaro Martinez, he asked me if I wanted to ride with him, and I said, "Yes." I rode with him for about three years, uh-huh. He was a good old boy.

SOLLIDAY: And, uh . . . Well, Mr. Bennett, I need to ask you a little bit, too, I guess. Now, you came here a little bit later in Tempe, too, didn't. . . .

MARVEL BENNETT: Yeah. I came in '45.

SOLLIDAY: [In] '45. And so it was, uh, certainly a different Tempe. . . .

DAHLIA BENNETT: Yeah, it was very different. I guess population . . . probably thirty-five hundred. Then went to work for the town, and the town ended if you went down College Avenue, there was nothin' after you crossed Apache. And if you came back to the west, and after you crossed Farmers, the railroad tracks and Farmers . . . there's nothin' back that way. And if you went, of course, if you went across the bridge, was nothin' over there, either. And, uh, back to the east, I guess, all over the end, at the . . . . What do you call it?

DAHLIA BENNETT: What?

MARVEL BENNETT: The creamery, as they call it.

DAHLIA BENNETT: Oh, the creamery. Yeah. Well my uncle ______________ over there.

MARVEL BENNETT: There was two houses sittin' back on. . . .

DAHLIA BENNETT: On Transmission Road, they used to call it.

MARVEL BENNETT: The Minder Binder?

SOLLIDAY: Oh, yeah.

MARVEL BENNETT: There was a few houses in there. And some of the houses that were back on that dirt road, which is University, are still there.

DAHLIA BENNETT: Yeah, my Tio Cuco's house, and the house where Mrs. Arredondo lived, that's the house where mi Tia

Lupe used to live. She used to live right there, where the Minder Binder's at, too.

MARVEL BENNETT: There was a dairy in there, where that Super Light's at. And the road used to go Eighth Street, was the main road. And you'd turn and you went back to Sixty-Seventy-Eighty-Nine, the main road.

DAHLIA BENNETT: Oh, I remember another man used to live on East Eighth Street -- Mr. Frank Burke. And he was a zanjero. Know what a zanjero is?

SOLLIDAY: Oh. The, uh. . . .

DAHLIA BENNETT: Water man.

SOLLIDAY: Water man.

DAHLIA BENNETT: Water man. Uh-huh. Yeah. My aunt, she worked for Mrs. Rickin for about three or four years.

Uh-huh. You know these boys that are educators, or something, that . . . Arredondos?

SOLLIDAY: Yeah, all the. . . .

DAHLIA BENNETT: Their mother. . . . When, when they landed here, they lived in mi Tio Cuco's.

SOLLIDAY: And that was the one on University?

DAHLIA BENNETT: Yeah, University.

SOLLIDAY: Yeah. That was, uh . . . because that was the interesting things was that every one of her sons was, were involved with the school, somehow.

[EVERYBODY TALKING AT ONCE]

MARVEL BENNETT: We had a prominent family. Uh . . . God, I can't remember his name. Anyway, all of the football games played at the Sun Devil Stadium. And he built a house right across Apache Boulevard.

DAHLIA BENNETT: Oh, Charlie Eckler! Yeah.

MR. BENNETT: Charlie Eckler. And he built a two-story house. Right down near the field. [laughter] There's nothin' in there today. It's a vacant lot. It's a parking lot.

SOLLIDAY: Yep.

DAHLIA BENNETT: Yep. Charlie Eckler used to have the store next to the Central Arizona Light and Power Company on Fifth and Mill.

SOLLIDAY: Oh. Was it on Fifth, going down that way, or going down Mill?

DAHLIA BENNETT: Going north. Um-hum.

MARVEL BENNETT: When I came and went to work for the city, the city didn't have very many people. And the work that was being done, wasn't done by any given person. You

would. . . .

END SIDE TWO

END OF INTERVIEW