Tempe Historical Museum Oral Histories

Harvey Samuel Harelson was born in Illinois in 1891. He came to Tempe in 1918 and started working as a teller at the Tempe National Bank. He soon became assistant cashier , and eventually, assistant manager of the bank. He also operated the Harelson Insurance Agency.

Harvey Harelson served on the Tempe City Council, 1924-1928. He was also a long-time member of Tempe Union High School District governing board, serving from 1928 to 1943. He died in 1986.

In this interview he talks about the construction and operation of the Tempe Beach Swimming Pool, city utilities and street paving, Tempe High School, and downtown businesses. He also recounts the robbery of the Baber-Jones store in 1921, and William Kingsbury's financial problems which led to the failure of the Farmers and Merchants Bank in 1923.

HARELSON: Well, I came to Phoenix originally in July 1917. We got a warm reception. My brother had preceded me. Then I came to Tempe in April of 1918, and I went to work for the Tempe National Bank. I liked the town of Tempe, it had many interesting characters. So I decided to stay, and here I am now.

HAWKINS: What made you come to Arizona?

HARELSON: Well, I was in Kansas City, Missouri, working in a bank. And then the bank asked me to go to Kansas to help out a bank there in a small town, so I went out there and worked about a year. In the meantime, my brother was writing me how good it was in Arizona, so I decided I'd come out and see, and that's how I got here.

HAWKINS: I understand at the bank you met your wife.

HARELSON: Correct. She came from Glendale. She was in a bank in Glendale, and she came over about. . . . (to wife) What year did you come to Tempe?

MRS. HARELSON: In 1918.

HAWKINS: In 1918?

HARELSON: She came later in the same year that I came, and in 1919 we were married. So we still are! (laughter)

HAWKINS: And you have two grown children?

HARELSON: We have a son and daughter, Jimmy and Dorothy.

HAWKINS: And during all these years in Tempe, I understand that you've had quite an active life in the community. You were a charter member of the Rotary Club?

HARELSON: I was a charter member of the Rotary, which was organized, the charter was issued in 1923. And there were 17 original charter members, and Fred Joyce was really the instigator of the formation. And about a year preceding the actual charter, Fred Joyce and Dilbert Baird and Hugh Laird and I went to Phoenix once a week for a year. They were skeptical that Tempe could support a Rotary, so they wanted to coach us for a year, and then some of the members from Phoenix would attend Tempe Rotary for the NEXT year to see that we carried on. Of course the first meeting place was in a restaurant between Fifth and Sixth streets that was operated by a Mr. Lemon, as I recall. And then later we moved to the Legion hall, which is east of Laird and Dines Drugstore, and were there for years, and served by the Methodist ladies' organization, which is renowned for good meals, and we had good attendance from everywhere on account of the meals. Well, the club finally grew to about a hundred members, and then later on, now Tempe had two Rotary Clubs. I'm the third president, and that would have been about 1927. At the present time, I'm an honorary member. I'm sorry to say, but I haven't been attending recently.

HAWKINS: What were some of the projects? Did you have some community projects that you want to talk about?

HARELSON: Well, about the first project was the starting of the Tempe swimming pool down next to the bridge. Dr. Stroud was the head of the committee and had an Olympic sized pool down there, and used to hold some. . . . One time he had a national swimming contest down there.

HAWKINS: I remember. Did they -- Rotary -- have any other big projects?

HARELSON: Well, it was mostly youth projects that they were contributing to, like the junior, or Mother Crawley's peewee leagues.

HAWKINS: Oh, yes. Well, big projects like the swimming pool don't happen every day. You were on the city council also?

HARELSON: Well, yes, I put in four years on the city council, from 1924 through '28. I believe Hugh Laird was mayor during all that time. Fred Joyce and Garfield Goodwin, Mr. Bailey, and Walter Busby, and Garfield Goodwin were on there most of the time with me. And we had some of the same problems of. . . . We thought at the time we had problems, which we did -- the City was operating the electric and gas system, and that was something that was hard to maintain on the City budget. The town wasn't growing much, it was a problem to maintain the system, to find capable people to manage it. So later on it was sold, right after I got off the council, the City sold it to the Arizona Public Service.

HAWKINS: You remember any particular problems of city government then?

HARELSON: Well, not really. Same old problem of having enough money to do what it wanted to do.

HAWKINS: Was that the time when they were paving a lot of the streets in Tempe?

HARELSON: I think that was before the paving really started.

HAWKINS: And you were on the school board for about 20 years, the high school board?

HARELSON: Yes, I took Mr. Bob Mullins' place there in about 19. . . the late '20s. I can't remember what year, but I served 20 years. Mr. Brower was the principal at the time, most of that time. In fact, he was on there all the time that I was on there. The high school, of course, is where the Tempe Center is at the present time. And later, before I went off [the board] we were trying to buy a site where the present Tempe High School is, but some of the board members were not enthusiastic about it. In fact, the architect at that time made the comment that during our lifetimes we'd never see the town go south of the railroad. (laughter) So that slowed it down for a few years. But Mr. E. W. Hudson owned the land, and I had him committed to sell it to the high school at a nominal figure. And when we couldn't get it done there for about two years, I thought it was gonna get away, but finally the board did pass a resolution to purchase the land, and so Mr. Hudson still owned it, so he made the sale. And that was the beginning of, really, the growth of the town south of the railroad.

HAWKINS: Do you remember how big the high school was? It developed, of course, during those years, too, didn't it?

HARELSON: Well, I can't recall the exact number of students, but compared to now, it was, I would guess, about three or four hundred would have been a big attendance at that time. I can recall one time the budget was anywhere from $30,000 to $50,000. What do you think of that now? You couldn't pay two teachers' salaries.

HAWKINS: Well, almost. (chuckles) Do you remember anything about any particular incidents about the high school during that time? Any particular problems or. . . .

HARELSON: No, I think we rather had a harmonious period. The board members were all agreeable about everything that came up, and really a nice period to be on the board.

HAWKINS: You had sort of a front seat on the events of Main Street Tempe -- the bank being right there at the corner of Mill and Sixth Street. And then, you also had an insurance business, didn't you, during these years?

HARELSON: Well, during the time after I started in the bank, I guess in the early '20s, the president of the bank asked me if I'd like to take on insurance, fire and automobile insurance and handle it in connection with the bank. And I said, well, I'd give it a try. It was a sideline in connection with the bank job for several years, until [it] expanded, and finally I did devote full-time after -- well, really, I left the bank in 1942, and at that time I was spending most of my time on insurance. Then later I came back and moved insurance into the rear of the bank building and handled insurance from 1942 until about 1947. Then in 1949 I started an agency of my own, which Jimmy, my son, is now operating.

HAWKINS: The same place?

HARELSON: Same place. Well, the location is not in the bank, it's on. . . .

HAWKINS: It's on Seventh Street?

HARELSON: Yeah.

HAWKINS: During this period that you have been here, Tempe has had a phenomenal growth. During the '50s, the population tripled three times . . . or I should say tripled. Was this reflected in changes in downtown?

HARELSON: Really, the downtown never progressed, 'cause it seemed like it was more or less hide-bound, I guess you could say. And the growth began mostly in the outlying areas. Really, the first progressive move for a shopping center was when the high school moved, that was sold and is now the Tempe Center, which as I remember, is the first shopping center in Tempe. And the growth, as we all can observe, has been southward and east and some west, too. But the downtown, outside of Western Savings and Loan, and the Arizona Bank, just about the only two modern buildings downtown that I can mention at the moment.

HAWKINS: Did Reeves have a garage next to the Baber-Jones grocery store at one time?

HARELSON: Yes, it was joined on the north, faced on Mill Avenue. And then Robison's Dime Store was next to that, north.

HAWKINS: Of course the heart of downtown was Laird and Dines Drugstore.

HARELSON: Oh, yes, Laird and Dines was a landmark and headquarters for all the visiting that was done downtown, practically. Hugh Laird and Bill Laird were fixtures in there. And of course Ralph Fowler put in about 25 or 30 years there. All they had to do was start baseball conversation with Ralph, and you had him goin'. Bill looked after the soda fountain and cigars, mostly. And Hugh took care of dishin' out the pills. Along with that, Hugh was in politics all the time. In fact, he was postmaster quite a long time, and then he was mayor for years and years.

HAWKINS: Any other old timers that you remember so well? Goodwin Indian Store.

HARELSON: Oh, yes, Garfield Goodwin, of course had the Indian Store. People came from all over to trade with Garfield there, 'cause didn't have Scottsdale stores or other places outside of Phoenix. He had about the nicest store in the Valley. And next to the bank was Frank LaMont's Jewelry. Of course, the main telephone exchange was north of Garfield Goodwin's. There was a cigar store in there. Mr. Borren had a cigar store and popcorn and stuff out on the sidewalk. And then Stella Bodardbur, now Stella Butler; Ruth Spangler, now Ruth West, was the main telephone operators. Covered the whole territory here. The telephone book at that time would be about the size of Popular Mechanics magazine for Tempe and Mesa. I found an old book in the '20s, and I gave it to Vic Corbell when he was president of the Water Users [Salt River Project]. He wanted it because of its size -- it was just so small that you couldn't believe it.

HAWKINS: You forgot to mention Tempe Hardware.

HARELSON: Oh, yes, Tempe Hardware. That was a big oversight. Tempe Hardware, of course, Mr. Curry, Johnny and Eddie's father, was operating it. When I first came to town, Johnny and Eddie were just probably about eighth graders, and real full of mischief. And then of course it was a landmark up until just the last year or two. Johnny, unfortunately, had to leave. That made a big void in that area, and everyone misses the old Tempe Hardware.

HAWKINS: And the busy corner on the corner of Fifth and Mill?

HARELSON: The busy corner was on the corner of Fifth and Mill. That's where the post office is now. Going on down the street, of course, there was a liquor store on the corner, and then the main headquarters down there for a lot of people to play dominos and pool and drink beer, was the pool hall. And then, of course, the Casa Loma Hotel. It's another landmark that at one time was quite a nice hotel. But it's been revamped into apartments now, and lost its character.

HAWKINS: Was there, back about 1919 -- as I remember, a dark and big meat market there between Fourth and Fifth on Mill, on the west side of Mill, near the Boston Store.

HARELSON: A meat market?

HAWKINS: Was there a meat market there?

HARELSON: I don't recall. Now, the meat market, another old-time deal there, was right west of the back end of the bank. It was Cheeter's Meat Market.

HAWKINS: Oh yes, across the alley.

HARELSON: Across the alley. And they had that one horse, old gray horse on a cart, that they delivered meat around town.

HAWKINS: They were still using horses, weren't they, at that time?

HARELSON: Yeah.

HAWKINS: There were some tragic events that happened. One of the things I still remember was the holding up of the Baber-Jones Mercantile in 1921. Do you know about that?

HARELSON: Well, yes, it had happened, as I recall, about six o'clock in the evening. I had just left the bank a few minutes before. Of course Baber's was opposite, across the street from the bank, and two Mexican fellahs held up the store and one of 'em had a rifle, and he shot Mr. Spangler, the police officer. And then a small boy, about nine years old, as I remember -- the son of Mr. Heintz who was a merchant down the street -- was walking by with his son, and this Mexican shot from inside the store and it went through the crack between the doors and hit his little boy, and killed him. And then in this shooting affair, one bullet hit a palm tree right on the corner there where the bank is, and even now you can see the hole where people have been tryin' to dig the bullet out. And then after the robbery, they shot Mr. Baber anyway, and wounded him pretty bad, but he got over it. Then they escaped and were heading for the Mexican border, and when they got down somewhere near Willcox, as I recall, one of the cowmen down there knew about 'em and they were riding across country and saw these Mexicans on horseback. And when they approached these Mexicans, the Mexicans tried to draw on 'em, and they killed one Mexican and wounded the other one, and brought him in.

I don't know whether he was ever hanged for the crime, but he was convicted to BE hanged, but I can't recall whether he was or not.

HAWKINS: Do you remember the name of the man who told you about this?

HARELSON: Well, one of the cowmen that used to attend Tempe Rotary from down there. He was the one that helped capture the Mexican. His name was Mr. Saxton.

HAWKINS: I remember that stirred up the town at the time. Of course I was just a child. There's another very interesting capture, I thought. Do you remember the time when Hayes Birch was killed, and the two who were guilty were capture in Tempe?

HARELSON: Yes, I recall the incident. These two brothers were armed with rifles, and they were sitting on top of the Tempe Butte, and I don't know who spotted 'em first, but Ralph McDonald was the city marshal, and he got the word that they were up there, so he slipped up behind 'em from the opposite side of where they were looking, and captured 'em without firing a shot. And they were, I believe, convicted to hang, too, but I don't know what the outcome was now.

HAWKINS: In 1922 Harry Crull was appointed justice of the peace. He'd been marshal. Do you know about his career, Harry Crull?

HARELSON: Yes, Harry was marshal quite a long time.

HAWKINS: He wasn't a justice of the peace, he was a marshal, wasn't he?

HARELSON: He was a marshal.

HAWKINS: Yes, I was wrong there.

HARELSON: Yes, Harry was on the job a long time.

HAWKINS: He and Ralph Fowler were real buddies, weren't they?

HARELSON: Oh, yes, they were always kidding each other.

HAWKINS: I suppose you knew about the Kingsbury Bank sale here, if we can call it that.

HARELSON: Very well. Every day it was my job to take the checks drawn on this Farmers [and] Merchants Bank that came to the Tempe National Bank. We had to take 'em over to the Kingsbury Bank [Farmers and Merchants Bank] and they would trade their checks, and we'd make a settlement every day. Well, then I would figure about 1923, there were some checks started coming in from the -- drawn by the treasurer of Maricopa County on the account that they had with the Kingsbury Bank. And Mr. Kingsbury, the first one was $10,000. So when I presented the checks, he handed the check back and said, "We're not paying this one." And I said, "Well, indicate on the check why you're refusing." So he wrote on the check "refer to the maker." And so the next day ANOTHER one came in, and the same thing happened. Well, when that began to occur, why, we were figuring that this bank was in jeopardy. So about another day or two after that, Thornton Jones, who was the cashier, used a blow torch on the books and almost destroyed 'em, but not completely. And then the bank, of course, was closed, and the depositors really had a rough go. As I recall, Dr. Stroud was made the trustee, and then the final liquidation, the depositors received about three cents on the dollar. And Mr. Kingsbury, of course the people around town always thought that he had a bunch of money buried somewhere. But apparently he didn't, because the way he lived more or less in poverty until he died, over where the police station is now, at the foot of the Butte, where their home was over there. It was a rather sad affair.

END SIDE ONE

BEGIN SIDE TWO

HAWKINS: What happened to the Thorton Jones family, do you remember?

HARELSON: Well, he spent -- Thorton Jones spent one or two or three years in the penitentiary in Florence. Then he went to Buckeye. And then the last that I knew of him, he had become the water commissioner of Arizona. And from then on, I lost track of him, after he went off of that.

HAWKINS: Kingsbury also spent time in prison?

HARELSON: I believe he did. I think he spent about a year. (tape turned off and on) When I first arrived at Tempe, the Salt River was running a real nice clear stream of water, which appealed to me very much because I enjoy fishing and hunting. And at the time, you could go down under the bridge, or within a 15-mile area here you could fish. The fish were not particularly what you wanted -- they were boneytail, they called 'em, or Verde trout -- but they'd hit a fly or spinner. And also there was a deep hole under the old bridge, and they were catching Colorado River salmon that would come up from the Gulf. This stream was, in the fall it would be quite nice duck hunting. I would take a hike up behind the creamery, which is over east of town, kill a mess of ducks, and be back to work by eight o'clock, and have a LOT of fun. So the transportation to Phoenix at that time was, there were a few old cars here, Model "T's," no paved roads, and most of the time we'd ford the river right down there close to where the old bridge is -- just go across on the gravel there. But it wasn't easy to get around, unless somebody had an old car. And then the Fikes run a bus from Phoenix to Payson, and also the Southern Pacific had a bus that went up to Roosevelt Lake. They had a hotel at Roosevelt, up just across the dam. Also a hotel at Fish Creek Canyon. And lots of eastern people were coming out, and they'd take this bus up as far as Fish Creek, and they'd have a meal and then go on from there to the hotel at Roosevelt. That was operated by the Southern Pacific Railroad.

HAWKINS: At that time there was no mainline railroad?

HARELSON: Well, there was the railroad coming through Tempe, but I don't think they had the cutoff from Gila Bend, down that way. I've kind of forgotten whether they built the cutoff later, or whether they built the road from Phoenix across.

HAWKINS: My dad used to hunt across the river on the Scottsdale side, under all that brush -- hunt for rabbits and quail.

HARELSON: Well, that up there north of the creamery, that was good duck hunting there, because across the river was some sloughs over there, and brush. And on the south side there was some sloughs, and a good wide place to put the decoys out. Really a nice variety of ducks comin' in. But now it's all dry sand, except when they have a flood.

HAWKINS: You think the early days of Tempe were "the good old days"?

HARELSON: Well, I like it better than it is now, as far as traffic-wise. (laughter) Well, we knew everybody, and it was really a joy to live in Tempe at that time. Many real old fine characters lived here: so many people that I enjoyed and miss up to now.

HAWKINS: Well, thank you so much.

HARELSON: You're welcome.

END SIDE TWO

END OF INTERVIEW